Comments for Ecosystem Management in NYC https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013 Seminar 3: Environmental Science & Technology in NYC (Baruch Fall 2013) Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:26:37 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.4.3 Comment on The Economics of Social Ecological Systems by Jenna Hosier https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/12/the-economics-of-social-ecological-systems/#comment-49 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:26:37 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=205#comment-49 Rishi and Jon, you both bring up great points about Ostrom’s thoughts in the article. I believe the use for the term SES, social-ecological system, by Ostrom is approaching the practical side of ecosystems. Going with what Jon mentioned, the only way to get people to care about our ecosystems is to educate them and bridge the gap, allowing society to understand our affects on the environment around us and how that in actuality impacts our quality of life. By acknowledging ecosystems as social-ecological systems, Ostrom is trying to call society’s attention to their interconnectedness with the natural world. She is demonstrating the significance of the interactions between ecosystems to humans.
Rishi, I love how you bring into play macroeconomics and draw upon the parallels of ecosystems to markets. Are you saying, in order to keep our ecosystems from being destroyed or over-consumed, there should be smaller groups regulating resources that are in use, rather than trying to implement policy on environmental conservation and restoration on a national or global scale, it is better to work on smaller, local levels to create a big movement made up of a bunch of tiny efforts? Like Jon mentions, it must start at an individual level and then grow into a larger effort to maintain the natural world.

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Comment on The Economics of Social Ecological Systems by wesleyyun https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/12/the-economics-of-social-ecological-systems/#comment-48 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:01:01 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=205#comment-48 I agree with you in that this paper was quite different in that it did feel like it was changing into an economics paper. However, this is most likely a product of her writing and her “background” in economics. Over the course, we have always wondered on how to connect this science and information to the public in an efficient way. Simply put, we need more people like Ostrom, as she is one of the few people who I feel like can convey ideas to the public due to her analogies. Her idea of systems and view of complexity really did open my eyes in that sometimes complex systems are necessary in order to address all the possible problems that may arise and that a simple solution may not fully utilize the resources to address certain problems.

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Comment on The Economics of Social Ecological Systems by Jon Park https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/12/the-economics-of-social-ecological-systems/#comment-47 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:53:48 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=205#comment-47 Very insightful post. In particular, I like how you connected economics with SES because I see the similarities as well. Ostrom draws the the conclusion that SES is essentially like nature’s version of the economy.
The greatest thing that I drew from Ostrom’s paper, was the fact that we are forcing futile regulations because we are implementing one-size-fits-all solutions to problems that vary in each system respectively. We are often caught with oversimplifying solutions to problems that are much more complex. However, it is difficult to stray policy makers away from this notion as they are looking for effective policies, but in the end are implementing the exact opposite of that.
The last point that particularly stood out to me was the need for education. Many don’t feel that they can make an impact on the environment from their individual actions, where this mentality discourages many to make an effort to help. In addition, knowledge is essential in order to make the most of the SES that we have today. Being uneducated means that we can overuse or use too little of a resource, where if we were educated, we would use them most effectively. In addition, the lack of knowledge also leads to carelessness. It is vital that we, users of SES, do not make quick and rash decisions to overuse these systems where the repercussions may ultimately be permanent.

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Comment on Letting The Common Man Learn To Manage The Commons by Joseph Maugeri https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/11/letting-the-common-man-learn-to-manage-the-commons/#comment-46 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:52:30 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=199#comment-46 It is interesting how Ms. Ostrom makes her work as accessible as she possibly can. But it is important to note one of her target audiences, which are people in these SESs that are being suppressed by government regulation. Without the accessibility of her work, and the ability to directly communicate with the people she is trying to influence, then what would be the point of doing the research to begin with? I agree with Evyatar in his observation that scientific articles are quite difficult to understand at times, although I fear simplifying the science can present a threat to the veracity of the articles themselves. I feel that if the scientists could present their data in a simpler way and also maintain the integrity of the science, then they would have already done it. A lot of these scientific studies are not always meant for the general public, they can be used to influence policy or regulations.
But back to the article. It seems obvious that people directly involved in an SES would be best for drafting a regulation framework that best suits all parties involved. Those closest to the systems can interact with the subtleties and delicacies of the ecologies. Without that crucial knowledge, government policy makers can’t make an informed decision and create the optimal policy. So users are the key to sustainability, which is not as obvious an idea.
But now what do we do with government policy makers? Do we change their jobs? Fire them? Replace them? Or keep them as they are? There are a lot of possibilities and looking at how we move forward will be interesting.

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Comment on Letting The Common Man Learn To Manage The Commons by Gen Hua Tan https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/11/letting-the-common-man-learn-to-manage-the-commons/#comment-45 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:42:54 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=199#comment-45 I completely agree with your point but like to add that aside from the scientific community, I believe she also wants to extend this framework to the self-interested groups so that they too will have a general basis of discussion in order to come to better conclusions and organize themselves in such a way that could enable sustainability in their respective resource systems. In other words, she is trying to bridge the gap between the scientific community and the rest of the people and therefore encourage self-organization rather than waiting for some government to give instructions on how to better manage the system.

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Comment on Letting The Common Man Learn To Manage The Commons by Zara Ellexi Hoffman https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/11/letting-the-common-man-learn-to-manage-the-commons/#comment-44 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 14:39:06 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=199#comment-44 A common theme to the vast majority of the readings we’ve read this semester, has been public knowledge on environmental issues. We’ve read countless articles enumerating the deterioration of ecosystems and natural resources, and the “punch line” of these papers has been due to a lack of understanding and information by the consumer population. What Ostrom so eloquently does, brings forth a model for all to understand, is so, so, so helpful to us, those not proficient in scientific knowledge.
Hopefully, the enlightened ideas of Ostrom can be spread and publicized. By highlighting and emphasizing the importance of complexity rather than chaos, Ostrom acknowledges the different “pieces of the puzzle” that exist in each environmental issue and makes us aware of the importance of the connection between each network in the system.
What strikes me in this paper is what can be seen as a quote summing up her ideas: “Thus, we must learn how to dissect and harness complexity, rather than eliminate if from such systems.” This idea must be implemented in all areas of everyday life. Not only while discussing SES’s in an environmental issue, but through political systems, school systems, and even familial systems we are all part of.
I would like to commend Ostrom for this article. It is no shock to me, that she was prized with the Noble, as she “dumbed down” a concept, foreign to the public, yet something so familiar to us, once pointed out in relatable terms. Although the article is wordy, outlines many ideas, and discusses the second-level variables under the first-level core subsystems, her point still resonates with me, and hopefully with most of us, “not so savvy environmentalists out there.”

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Comment on elinor ostrom + ownership by jfreedman13 https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/10/elinor-ostrom-ownership/#comment-43 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 06:53:16 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=193#comment-43 I think your response summed up many of Ostrom’s key points quite well. Similar to how we discussed in class, Ostrom was an inspiring figure from the start, as she was a woman who despite not originally having an economics background, was able to create theories and ideas that competed with top economists. Besides being one of the few women to speak knowledgeably on economics and receive recognition, she was relatively unknown, but quickly made a name for herself. After all, earning a Nobel Prize speaks for itself in a way.

Her idea on how there is no universal solution to every SES rings true today. Oftentimes when people complain about something within our society, they will compare our problem to one in another society and observe that society’s solution to the problem. While this may seem logical, the solution is not always that simple. There are factors in other societies that may allow for a particular solution to function in that society, but fail to work in another society. This is an idea that many current public policy makers could learn from.

I also think Ostrom’s idea about people’s pursuit of management is important to understand. Often people will act selfishly because they don’t believe what they’re doing will have much of an impact on anyone else when in reality it will. People will also sometimes be unwilling to cooperate due to lack of understanding. If people could be more aware of the consequences of their actions and communicate with one another better, it would lead to greater understanding. With greater understanding there could be more conflict resolution and overall peace.

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Comment on Letting The Common Man Learn To Manage The Commons by Evyatar Cohen https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/11/letting-the-common-man-learn-to-manage-the-commons/#comment-42 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 04:16:27 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=199#comment-42 I too think one of the most remarkable parts of Ostrom’s research is her passion to ensure common understanding by all. She is able to define the components of a successful system while still strongly focusing on the importance of relaying her message clearly.

Something that has recently come to my attention is the difficultly that comes with deciphering so many of these scientific papers as I continue my research for our final project. So many scientists engage in years of research in the hopes of making an ecological difference and try to relay all of their work in a single paper. That single paper can often be very cryptic. And the truth of the matter is when they hand off their respective papers to the general public or directly to someone who may have the power to make that change or difference, it’s important for the paper to be easily understood but still have all of the relevant information and data. But does that mean that there should be a change in the formation of scientific papers and methods of presentation in order to ensure that the information is presented in a more simplistic manner and can then further affect public policy? Can increased simplicity be a method of bridging the gap between science and policy? Or is it more important for people to recognize the amount of information that may be lost if we ask for these papers to be ‘dumbed down’? And is that what in turn leads to Ostrom’s problem with public policy being too general and overarching because people do not put forth the effort or time to recognize and further their understanding of the ecological problems?

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Comment on Letting The Common Man Learn To Manage The Commons by Evyatar Cohen https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/11/letting-the-common-man-learn-to-manage-the-commons/#comment-41 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 04:05:43 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=199#comment-41 I too think one of the most remarkable parts of Ostrom’s research is her passion to ensure common understanding by all. She is able to define the components of a successful system while still strongly focusing on the importance of relaying her message clearly.

Something that has recently come to my attention is the difficultly that comes with deciphering so many of these scientific papers as I continue my research for our final project. So many scientists engage in years of research in the hopes of making an ecological difference and try to relay all of their work in a single paper. That single paper can often be very cryptic. And the truth of the matter is when they hand off their respective papers to the general public or directly to someone who may have the power to make that change or difference, it’s important for the paper to be easily understood but still have all of the relevant information and data. But does that mean that there should be a change in the formation of scientific papers and methods of presentation in order to ensure that the information is presented in a more simplistic manner and can then further affect public policy? Can increased simplicity be a method of bridging the gap between science and policy? Or is it more important for people to recognize the amount of information that may be lost if we ask for these papers to be ‘dumbed down’? And is that what in turn leads to Ostrom’s problem with public policy being too general and overarching because people do not put forth the effort or time to recognize and further their understanding of the ecological problems?

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Comment on elinor ostrom + ownership by Jihae Lee https://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/2013/11/10/elinor-ostrom-ownership/#comment-40 Tue, 12 Nov 2013 02:25:47 +0000 http://eportfolios.macaulay.cuny.edu/zarnochfall2013/?p=193#comment-40 I think it’s really interesting to see how someone whose main field of study is not in Economics won a Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Science, mainly for a study which argues against a commonly believed economic theory – the Tragedy of the Commons. Her study teaches us, once again, that society has a lot of control over the environment and its resources and that if we are cautious of our own actions, we will be able to protect it and foster a better living place for everyone.

However, it a bit disheartening to see that self-interest will always play a huge role in whether or not the Tragedy of Commons is true or not. In the scenario that the Tragedy of Commons holds to be true, the ecosystem will be damaged because of the users’ self-interest to use and expose all of the common services and resources it provides. In the case where the Tragedy of Commons holds to be false, as Ostrom’s study proves, users will only control themselves if there are proper motivating and beneficial factors. Either way we act in ways that will ultimately benefit us as consumers.

All in all, whether or not users are acting out of self-interest, I think Ostrom’s study and its findings play a huge role in the future of our ecology. As Damla mentioned, they highlight the fact that users are in complete control and that they have the capacity to understand the current situation they are in. With further research and the proper communication between researchers and the public we can take the adequate measures to preserve the various SESs and the services they provide to people and other various organisms. It is encouraging to know that with the proper motivation, we, as users, have so much power to preserve the environment .

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